Krooz, Leuey, Belly and the DPP Saga

[H1bb3i2d]

What's up with Jonathon Giles? Is he injured? Will he play?

I would say he is their number 1 with Bellchambers spelling him and playing forward. Hird loved to use Bellchambers forward when he had both he and Ryder in the team. As I said before, they wouldn't have gone out and got Giles if they intended to play him in the VFL and Bellchambers has played that majority forward role before.

It will be interesting to see what his hit out to advantage numbers are because while people might see that average of 80 you may have to drop it down another 10 points due to the change in the ruck rule.

Bombers have absolutely 0 cover if Belly were to go down, so just because we chased a second ruckman it doesn't mean he's suddenly our number one.

I think a fit Belly is better around the ground with his marking, and Giles has the better goals/game record, so I 100% see Bellchambers being given first dibs on the 1st ruck spot.

[Mat0369]

Bombers have absolutely 0 cover if Belly were to go down, so just because we chased a second ruckman it doesn't mean he's suddenly our number one.

I think a fit Belly is better around the ground with his marking, and Giles has the better goals/game record, so I 100% see Bellchambers being given first dibs on the 1st ruck spot.

Giles would have had to agree to a trade to the Bombers for GWS to ship him off so he wouldn't go anywhere that he would not be getting significant game time. If that was not the case he would have vetoed the Bombers deal and asked to go somewhere else.

[H1bb3i2d]

Bombers have absolutely 0 cover if Belly were to go down, so just because we chased a second ruckman it doesn't mean he's suddenly our number one.

I think a fit Belly is better around the ground with his marking, and Giles has the better goals/game record, so I 100% see Bellchambers being given first dibs on the 1st ruck spot.

Giles would have had to agree to a trade to the Bombers for GWS to ship him off so he wouldn't go anywhere that he would not be getting significant game time. If that was not the case he would have vetoed the Bombers deal and asked to go somewhere else.

I'm sure fighting against Bellchambers for a spot is much more favourable than Mumford. Doesn't mean he gets first shot, just the "opportunity to be a team's number 1 ruck, especially if Bellchambers gets an injury". I'd say it was more like that, rather than a "Yes Jon, you're automatically our number one ruck if you come to our team, we'll chuck Bellchambers who isn't half bad into the magoos for you."

[Ricochet]

Promising a player game time if they come to your club and it actually happening are two completely different things....

[Mat0369]

I'm sure fighting against Bellchambers for a spot is much more favourable than Mumford. Doesn't mean he gets first shot, just the "opportunity to be a team's number 1 ruck, especially if Bellchambers gets an injury". I'd say it was more like that, rather than a "Yes Jon, you're automatically our number one ruck if you come to our team, we'll chuck Bellchambers who isn't half bad into the magoos for you."

I am not saying Bellchambers will play reserves, but they will use the two of them the same way they tried with Paddy and Bellchambers. That just means that Bellcho is not the number 1 ruck and is likely to be splitting a large chunk of that ruck time. Also with Patton injured, Boyd leaving and Mummy so injury prone the Giants could have used Giles up forward this year and actually need his depth, but with them needing cash for Griff and all these gun mids he was expendable.

Promising a player game time if they come to your club and it actually happening are two completely different things....

While this is true, the fact they lost Ryder means he should see his workload. I think a lot of people are discounting Giles (who is a decent player) because they are so desperate for Bellchambers to be their ruck coverage saviour.

I am also curious to see what his percentage of hit outs go to advantage.

[PowerBug]

Ok, so it seems I'm not totally crazy by currently having Giles in my team.

Mason Cox is not expected to play at all yeah? Are there any Ruck rookies that might be getting game time? Sam Durdin? Peter Wright?

[Nige]

Ok, so it seems I'm not totally crazy by currently having Giles in my team.

Mason Cox is not expected to play at all yeah? Are there any Ruck rookies that might be getting game time? Sam Durdin? Peter Wright?

I've considered Giles myself, but my bias can't pass up Mummy and Ivan. Toby Nankervis is probably the best bet, was on the cusp of selection for the Swans being named in the emgs a number of times and did quite well in the NEAFL all year. Nank is currently my R3.

While this is true, the fact they lost Ryder means he should see his workload. I think a lot of people are discounting Giles (who is a decent player) because they are so desperate for Bellchambers to be their ruck coverage saviour.

I am more that 100% certain that this is the case. Honestly, I think Giles is a better ruck and forward than Belly is, I don't see why he won't play with Belly and won't be or at least challenge for the No.1 ruck role at Essendon.

[RaisyDaisy]

I like Giles, but I feel like he is getting overrated around here

He couldn't get a game for Port, and when Mummy was fit he barely got games but all of a sudden he's a walk up starter number 1 ruck at Essendon?

He will play, I don't argue that, but to think that he will impact Belly is just a bit hard for me believe

I don't care whether it's ruck or forward, Belly is best 22, and that's all I need for 300k with his potential

[Mat0369]

Ok, so it seems I'm not totally crazy by currently having Giles in my team.

Mason Cox is not expected to play at all yeah? Are there any Ruck rookies that might be getting game time? Sam Durdin? Peter Wright?

I wouldn't go as far as having him in my team because I would rather fork out the extra cash for Nic Nat or go cheaper and go with Kreuz/Nicholls/Leuenberger

The 3 rookies I think on the radar are Durdin, Nank and Lobb. I think for Nankervis to get games Pyke has to be injured and same goes with Lobb. Durdin will probably be eased into it with Thompson, Tarrant, Hansen, Grima, Tippett and Firrito all competing for spots as tall defenders. The advantage with Durdin is that Tarrant, Tippett and Grima are all coming off injuries, Hansen has had issues with concussion and Firrito is getting up there in age

I've considered Giles myself, but my bias can't pass up Mummy and Ivan. Toby Nankervis is probably the best bet, was on the cusp of selection for the Swans being named in the emgs a number of times and did quite well in the NEAFL all year. Nank is currently my R3.

I am more that 100% certain that this is the case. Honestly, I think Giles is a better ruck and forward than Belly is, I don't see why he won't play with Belly and won't be or at least challenge for the No.1 ruck role at Essendon.

The NAB will give us the best insight in preparation for round 1 but with no Ryder, Carlisle probably going back to defense since that is where Hird prefers him, Hurley is the unknown if he goes forward again and with Daniher really the only other tall option (Ambrose is more your 3rd tall) Giles or Bellchambers will more then likely be required forward.

[AaronKirk]

I like Giles, but I feel like he is getting overrated around here

He couldn't get a game for Port, and when Mummy was fit he barely got games but all of a sudden he's a walk up starter number 1 ruck at Essendon?

He will play, I don't argue that, but to think that he will impact Belly is just a bit hard for me believe

I don't care whether it's ruck or forward, Belly is best 22, and that's all I need for 300k with his potential

We will have to see NAB games to see with our set up.

Hirdy may just throw 12 months of Bomber's work out the door and revert to what we did structurally in 2012 and 2013.

This would make Belly more attractive as a selection. But seriously I am clueless as to what we will do.

[Ricochet]

I honestly don't see the issue even if Giles does play.

Belly averaged 86 and 82 playing second fiddle to Ryder. Even if Giles is named with him, Belly will still get more middle time than he did with Ryder in the side.

Expecting 85-90+ isn't unreasonable at all

[Mat0369]

I like Giles, but I feel like he is getting overrated around here

He couldn't get a game for Port, and when Mummy was fit he barely got games but all of a sudden he's a walk up starter number 1 ruck at Essendon?

He will play, I don't argue that, but to think that he will impact Belly is just a bit hard for me believe

I don't care whether it's ruck or forward, Belly is best 22, and that's all I need for 300k with his potential

Most rucks don't develop until they are mid 20's, that is when Giles got his starting gig at the Giants so he started playing consistent footy around the right age.

Also in terms of not getting games when Mummy was fit, when you have Cameron, Patton, Boyd, Tomlinson, Stewart etc. as potential KPP's you get games into them. Giles is a more natural ruck and since Mummy is a guy more then capable of shouldering the ruck on his own they had him do that and played the young guys. You can't compare trying to supersede Mummy who is one of the premier rucks in the comp to playing alongside Bellchambers

[Mat0369]

I honestly don't see the issue even if Giles does play.

Belly averaged 86 and 82 playing second fiddle to Ryder. Even if Giles is named with him, Belly will still get more middle time than he did with Ryder in the side.

Expecting 85-90+ isn't unreasonable at all

This brings up the point from earlier, what are his hit out to advantage numbers? Going and looking at Bellchambers stats in those seasons he was getting an ishload of total hit outs, but how many of those are to advantage? If he was getting 32 hitouts but only 5 of those are going to advantage he will see his points drop

[Nige]

I like Giles, but I feel like he is getting overrated around here

He couldn't get a game for Port, and when Mummy was fit he barely got games but all of a sudden he's a walk up starter number 1 ruck at Essendon?

He will play, I don't argue that, but to think that he will impact Belly is just a bit hard for me believe

I don't care whether it's ruck or forward, Belly is best 22, and that's all I need for 300k with his potential

Most rucks don't develop until they are mid 20's, that is when Giles got his starting gig at the Giants so he started playing consistent footy around the right age.

Also in terms of not getting games when Mummy was fit, when you have Cameron, Patton, Boyd, Tomlinson, Stewart etc. as potential KPP's you get games into them. Giles is a more natural ruck and since Mummy is a guy more then capable of shouldering the ruck on his own they had him do that and played the young guys. You can't compare trying to supersede Mummy who is one of the premier rucks in the comp to playing alongside Bellchambers

Yeah spot on.

They could have played Giles, but they used high picks on some quality youngsters and even though Giles had the experience and was a great shot for goal, they weren't going to be playing Jezza, Patton, Boyd and Tomlinson in the twos. I seriously think he'll thrive at Essendon.

[RaisyDaisy]

I like Giles, but I feel like he is getting overrated around here

He couldn't get a game for Port, and when Mummy was fit he barely got games but all of a sudden he's a walk up starter number 1 ruck at Essendon?

He will play, I don't argue that, but to think that he will impact Belly is just a bit hard for me believe

I don't care whether it's ruck or forward, Belly is best 22, and that's all I need for 300k with his potential

Most rucks don't develop until they are mid 20's, that is when Giles got his starting gig at the Giants so he started playing consistent footy around the right age.

Also in terms of not getting games when Mummy was fit, when you have Cameron, Patton, Boyd, Tomlinson, Stewart etc. as potential KPP's you get games into them. Giles is a more natural ruck and since Mummy is a guy more then capable of shouldering the ruck on his own they had him do that and played the young guys. You can't compare trying to supersede Mummy who is one of the premier rucks in the comp to playing alongside Bellchambers

It's all irrelevant

Bellchambers is best 22, provides ruck cover and has the potential to average 75-90.

That's all I care about