John Elliot - A Pigs Arse

Holz · July 21, 2011, 01:32:03 AM

Quote from: Zarts on July 21, 2011, 01:27:00 AM
honestly, I don't even know what he said :P

http://www.novafm.com.au/video_john-elliott-offends-on-can-of-worms_112412 mods if this isnt allowed feel free to delete it, but there is no malice on my behalf for posting it.

RiOtChEsS · July 21, 2011, 01:33:58 AM

agree with Hawk, when people have been oppressed and enslaved with the use of those words they will always evoke emotion :-X

Zarts · July 21, 2011, 02:03:38 AM

so he said abos? honestly, it seems to me that was a product of his times, I know you say that's no excuse, but it's not like he said- oi brah wish we could have dem nigga hunts like we dun bak in mah day!
it was, imo, just a deadset slip of the tongue, they say old habits die hard. For instance, although it's not offensive, I see teachers from my old school all the time, and whenever I see them I address them as 'miss' or 'mr', maybe 'sir', and I've been asked several times to call them by their first names. Like, I try to do it, and most the time I succeed, but occasionally you just dropped back and use words that you were conditioned to since you were a babe.

The video was screwing up chronically for me, so I didn't see much past where he said along the lines of 'I'm sorry, I apologise for that, I know I'm not supposed to say that word'.

Maybe the reason why I don't see what he said as a bad thing, and rather political correctness gone overboard, is because of the nature of the word 'abo'. In my mind I've always simply seen it as the abbreviation and shortening of the word 'aboriginal', and subsequently treated it the same way as I treated the word 'aussie'.

I actually didn't even find out it was even slightly offensive until year 11 when my teacher came up to me with an in class essay I had written on aboriginal spirituality to tell me that 'abo' (as I had used it in my last 1/4 since the word 'aboriginal/ies' came up so often and I was running short on time) was not the correct terminology, and was racially insensitive.

I made my other post about not teaching children the history of these words, to cease them being offensive, thinking he had said something along the lines of 'nigger' or 'coon', but this situation actually highlights my point. I was never told, or knew that the use of the word 'abo' was infact racially offensive, so subsequently, if I used it (which I don't think I did- when speaking aboriginal was easy enough to say), it was never in malice or with the desire to hurt people.

I may be rambling a bit, I'm a touch tired.

I mean, I'm not aboriginal, so I don't know if/why it is offensive to them, but what I don't understand is how 'abo' used by itself is an offensive term, I can see how it is if used in conjunction with 'you flowering abo cow' or 'you abo piece of shower', or other monstrosities like that, but that can be said the same for any race, you add obscenities in front of words and it makes noun seem slanderous. I think these political correct people making a big deal out of this should harden up, I personally don't see why an aboriginal would take serious offence to 'abo' unless they were a pretentious and attention seeking dick.

I've said what I thought about the use of the word abo now. I could be (and will probably cop a load of shower either way for this) completely wrong and off the mark. If any of our forum members are either of indigenous descent, or has some knowledge I am lacking, please enlighten me on why this term is actually offensive.

If you wish to stay anonymous, PM me, that's fine.

FTR, I would prefer to hear from a person of actual indigenous person, rather than hear some PC bs from a non-indigenous australian whose own ideas and values are worth, in this case, as little as my own.

and further more, I would like to apologise to anyone who may have taken offence to some of disgusting terms I did use in context for this post. I'm sorry about that, but honestly self censoring bugs me- I'd prefer to know for sure what a word is/ means rather than beat around the bush.

Fireballz · July 21, 2011, 02:41:10 AM

Quote from: Zarts on July 21, 2011, 02:03:38 AM
I mean, I'm not aboriginal, so I don't know if/why it is offensive to them, but what I don't understand is how 'abo' used by itself is an offensive term, I can see how it is if used in conjunction with 'you flowering abo cow' or 'you abo piece of shower', or other monstrosities like that, but that can be said the same for any race, you add obscenities in front of words and it makes noun seem slanderous. I think these political correct people making a big deal out of this should harden up, I personally don't see why an aboriginal would take serious offence to 'abo' unless they were a pretentious and attention seeking dick.

That's pretty much what I was trying to get at. Not used maliciously on this occasion, more clumsily than malicious. Sorry I'm not indigenous but I'm replying anyway.

I think white Australians have a long and sometimes embarrassing history in relation to our behaviour towards aboriginal Australians, and if we have a choice between a word that is borderline offensive/may be considered offensive by some ('abo') and a completely non-offensive word ('indigenous'), it's the least we could do to err on the side of caution.

Zarts · July 21, 2011, 04:07:25 AM

yeah, I know what you mean, but honestly I find someone's intent more hurtful than their words. If a friend says the me jovially 'oh, you're such a flowering douche' I'm not going to take offence to it, hell, if someone I didn't know said it in light humour I wouldn't give a damn. I would be far more offender by someone saying, with complete malice and hatred in their sould 'you're so perverted you're probably attracted to flowerpots', as laughable as it is, I would still find that more damaging.

But maybe that's just me.

RiOtChEsS · July 21, 2011, 11:56:42 AM

so if Mick Malthouse said to Milne "oh Milney ur such a rapist" with a big shower eating grin on his face it would be ok?

i dont think so Tim some words just arent gonna fly :-X

Zarts · July 21, 2011, 04:39:57 PM

malice can be malice even if it's acted as though it isn't?

hawk_88 · July 21, 2011, 07:07:35 PM

Like I said earlier and Zippo said, I have a feeling that it isn't a word that by itself carries any offence and to my knowledge doesn't have a history to go with it, but is rather taboo as a product of our highly cautious politically correct society.

I would be really interested to hear from an Aboriginal person on this issue though.

Zarts · July 21, 2011, 07:46:47 PM

^ same here.

j959 · July 21, 2011, 07:47:18 PM

it's a derogatory word because of the social context it carries with it.

n*gga is only starting to become less offensive these days because it has been 'reclaimed' by African Americans in the US.
you wouldn't even contemplate using that word in a sentence let alone to describe someone with it 20yrs ago but recently because of the 'new' social context it isn't as offensive.

the way John Elliot probably meant it would have been negative even at the lower level (i read somewhere he apologised straight away but from the commentary I've seen it wasn't a good use of the term in the first place) - i can't see that anyone would be able to interpret anything remotely positive from the use of the term as it is/was.

Zarts · July 21, 2011, 08:02:37 PM

watch the video holz linked- then comment on the usage.

what's the social context? I mean, it can't be ridiculously engrained in society if I'm completely oblivious to it?

j959 · July 21, 2011, 08:53:39 PM

Quote from: Zarts on July 21, 2011, 08:02:37 PM
watch the video holz linked- then comment on the usage.

what's the social context? I mean, it can't be ridiculously engrained in society if I'm completely oblivious to it?

wow, you are young Zip! ;)

my point is that it's a really loaded term and the loading is towards the negative with no positive meaning whatsoever - so once it is used the only interpretation could be negative/offensive.

Zarts · July 21, 2011, 09:01:30 PM

lol, my dad just tried to explain it to me. Apparently because the word and shortening of the word began with malice and was used with racial hatred for decades, that's what makes it offensive. He also said I wouldn't understand how the word was used since I wasn't around back then :P

hawk_88 · July 21, 2011, 10:55:23 PM

That is interesting because I knew it had (and sometimes still is sadly) used in horrible contexts, but I was never aware that the term took on the connotations from those contexts in general social use.

I always knew it was a heavily loaded term and as such avoided using it but never really knew the origin of it. I guess in many ways that is a good sign that so much social progress has been made.

Wes Mantooth · July 24, 2011, 10:57:10 PM

Quote from: Zarts on July 21, 2011, 09:01:30 PM
lol, my dad just tried to explain it to me. Apparently because the word and shortening of the word began with malice and was used with racial hatred for decades, that's what makes it offensive. He also said I wouldn't understand how the word was used since I wasn't around back then :P

That is correct... regardless of what it can be construed to mean now, its what it meant then to be offensive and the only (minority of) people who use them are from that time, so they've seen the progression over time, therefore they are in the wrong if they use it.