NicNat Hype

[valkorum]

I think the hype for NicNat is way over the top.  Yes he is a going to be a great player and has amazaing athletic abilities but I reckon everyone goes over the top.

The AFL website does a team of the week for each round

http://www.afl.com.au/news/newsarticle/tabid/208/newsid/92666/default.aspx

They have NicNat as the ruck and Sandi on the bench.  Here are their stats and write up


Nic Naitanui (West Coast Eagles) - Produced a dominant first half and made every touch count - 10 of his 13 disposals were contested. Had seven inside 50s, seven clearances, laid five tackles and kicked a goal.

Aaron Sandilands (Fremantle) - The competition's most in-form ruckman continued with another commanding display, winning 36 hit-outs and 22 touches, including 15 contested possessions


NicNat

6 Kicks
7 Handballs
3 Marks
5 Tackles
2 FF
1 FA
17 Hitouts
1 Goal
2 Points


Sandilands

10 Kicks
12 Handballs
7 Marks
1 Tackle
4 FF
2 FA
36 Hitouts
0 Goal
0 Points


I am not denying that NicNat played a good game and by the articles own admission, he played a dominant first half.  I think Cox played a better overall 4 quarter game than NicNat

Sandilands dominatted King and Gardiner all night but gets the bench spot and Cox doesnt get a guernsey.

I know this doesnt make a difference to anything, but to me I think the media are over-hyping NicNat

(and for you Eagles supporters I am not cracking the showers because we didnt get him)

What are peoples thoughts?

[ossie85]

Nic Nat could be a top 5 player in the AFL.

... but you're right. Just not yet.

The best two SC ruckmen for the week were Cox (119) and Sandilands (119) with Nic Nat close on 117. So there is that indicating they were close.

I agree, feel Cox played the better full game. And Sandi has taken over from Cox as the best ruckmen in the AFL.

Wouldn't pay too much attention to the team of the week, which I enjoy reading btw, cos it is just one guys opinion who can't have watched every game that week.

[valkorum]

As I said, the article makes no difference to a player.  My point was how overhyped NicNat has become.

I agree that in 2 - 3 years time he will be a dominant force and the Weagles should be very excited with his long term prospects.

[Bluke]

First I would like to point out a couple of things.

Yes, that article was written by 1 guy and is of course his opinion. However, basing your evaluation of who played a better game last week on Supercoach Stats is in my opinion problematic. Supercoach is after all a game, with the final scores of players determined by employees of Champion Data. These employees also have the propensity to make mistakes and can also be influenced by their own personal prejudices and opinions.   

I believe if you were to assess the Essendon vs. West Coast based on player impact, you would come to the conclusion that Nic Nat may have had a more influential game than Dean Cox. There are a number of reasons for why I believe this so.

1) The West Coast games I have been to so far this year have for the most part been a quiet affair. There are large durations of time throughout the game where the crowd is but a mere whimper compared to the home games of 05/06. This is for obvious reasons (lack of form etc). However, when that young man goes near the ball he sets the crowd alight. Anyone who has played in front of a big home crowd can attest to the adrenaline rush they receive when the crowd finds its voice, willing players to play harder, faster and longer. I consider this the first positive impact Nic Nat had on that game of football.

2) The second positive impact, which is related to my first point, is the way Nic plays football.  I believe, and you may or may not agree, that Nic Nats style is something completely different from what we have seen from any recent ruckmen. He does not play like Sandilands or Cox. His attack on the contest is ferocious, even if he doesn’t get a clean possession he often forces the ball forward leading to opportunities for other players. This aggressive style of play is what many people come to see when they go to a game of football; it brings the crowd to life.

3) How many times have you seen a ruckmen consistently contest a bounce or throw in, follow his tap work up, win the contested ball and then clear it effectively? It is a rare quality to see in a ruck, especially one in only his second year of AFL football. How many ruckmen are as good in tight and down low as Nic Nat, not many. He has also displayed ability in front of goal, he can snap the ball, kick on the run and from a set shot. We have seen all of this in the first 4 rounds of this season. He has also shown he can have multiple goal games, an important attribute for someone who will spend a fair amount of time down forward.  This is my third point; Nic Nats raw ability is astounding.

4) If you think back to the Nic Nat you saw last year and compare him to the Nick Nat you have seen so far this year, the level of improvement he has displayed is incredible. Last year, you hardly saw him take a kick, always electing to give it off to a teammate by hand. In fact, in 10 games last season he had 15 kicks. Compare that to this season, 25 kicks in 6 games. This says to me that not only is he finding the ball more, but he is more confident in his ability to dispose of it.  This is probably the most positive sign for me. At the end of last season I would have said Nick Nat was 3 or 4 years from really having an impact on the field. 

5) How do you match up on a guy who is 200cm tall, but plays like a rover? I would consider this a major concern for any coach coming up against the Eagles this season. How do you match him up, or do you let him impose his will on the game? Do you stick a more mobile big man, aka. Goodes in general play (I think this will be Roos’ response this weekend) and just play a ruck on him at bounces and throw ins?

6) Cult figure, he has become almost a cult figure. He puts bums in seats, and comes through (so far) with the goods.

7) My last point is this, if all the experts are talking him up and they are; and he keeps delivering, improving and imposing himself on games. Then why resist it? The Coaches, the players, the commentators, the guys who live and breathe footy are all saying that Nic Nat is the next big thing. In my opinion, the only thing left to debate is not if, but when he reaches his full potential. The improvement we have seen from him over the last year has been incredible, which suggests to me that we will see just what he can do sooner rather than later. Not in 3 or 4 years, but this year and next year.

Believe the hype, Nic Nat is the real deal..

(note. This may be just the ramblings of a die-hard, one-eyed Eagles supporter, or it could be the objective analysis of one of the most talented players we have seen grace the football field.)

[ossie85]

Oh yeah, I agree Nic Nat is the real deal! 3 years and he'll be a superstar!

Answer me this though: You're selecting a ruckmen for the grand final, and for some reason you can only choose either Nic Nat or Cox, who would you pick?

[valkorum]

Great points Bluke and I personally agree with every one of them, but we are talking about just 1 game of football to base that article on.  During that game (round 4 v Essendon) there is no doubting that he had an awesome first half and imposed himself on the game.  What about the very start of the game - 1st centre bounce, taps, roves and kicks inside 50 for lecras to clean it up and snap the opening goal **HIGHLIGHT REEL*

But throughout the course of that game I thought that Cox had a better game overall than NicNat, mainly based on his ruck work.  I also feel that Sandilands was a bigger influence than both of them for his relevant game against the Saints.  He was 1 up against King/Gardiner for the whole match (with very brief spells and Johnson taking the ruck) and won his position easily.  Most of his marks were contested and were taken when they were needed etc.


NicNat

6 Kicks
7 Handballs
3 Marks
5 Tackles
2 FF
1 FA
17 Hitouts
1 Goal
2 Points


Cox
9 Kicks
10 Handballs
2 Marks
2 Tackles
4 FF
1 FA
30 hitouts
1 goal
1 point


Sandilands

10 Kicks
12 Handballs
7 Marks
1 Tackle
4 FF
2 FA
36 Hitouts
0 Goal
0 Points


BUT...... The media 'over' hype of NicNat has made the impression that he was the best ruckman for the round. 

ps.. I totally agree that NicNat will be a superstar of the comp in years to come.

[ELLsendon]

Agree Valkorum. 3 years. Maybe. Now? No.

[Bluke]

Cox hands down Ossie. But I don't think that was the question under debate. I was under the impression the two points of contention were:

1) Who was more deserving of a spot on the 'team of the round.' Sandilands I believe is deserving of the #1 spot. Although I can understand why the author chose Nic Nat to start on the ground. He had a momentous impact on that game to half time, by which time the outcome of the game was under little doubt. He played an impact role, helped lift the confidence of his teammates by his high tempo play. While Cox got better as the game wore on, the game had already been decided in the 2nd quarter; as a result while he was competitive, his impact was negligible.

2) Is Nic Nat overhyped by the media. The media sensationalise just about everything, from MM's antics to Fevs gambling addiction. At least in this case something positive is getting decent coverage from the football media, rather than the typical scandalous bullshower they bombard us with year after year. While the media do sensationalise, I do feel that there is a general consensus from current players and coaches (not the media) that Nic Nat is as bigger deal as the media say he is. He received 5 votes in a poll of coaches asked who they thought would be the 'next dominate player in the AFL with under 50 games experience.' He finds himself standing taller than some pretty talented company, taking away the spotlight from players like Rioli, Rich and Hurley.

I do believe Cox is the better player, I would have him as my starting ruck over Nick Nat if we were to play the GF this year. Cox has two GF berths under his belt and four All-Australian starts. Last week against Essendon though, Nic Nat stole the limelight. The game was there to be won, he grasped the contest with two hands and took it head on.

Yes he deserved the spot, yes the hype is deserved.

=)

[Bluke]

There is no doubt in my mind that he will be a better player in 3 years time. But what is your point ELL?

He is the new kid on the block, has his head screwed on an (except for the ball scratching incident =P ) but who is to say he doesnt deserve the media coverage he is getting. More deserving than Fev, who seems attention starved to me; or MM, who would do anything to get his name out of the headlines.

[MissPiesFF]

NicNat already has natural abilities. It is indeed how these natural abilities are structured in order to get the most out of his game. He is obviously getting  the help he needs by WCE coach putting him in defense for some time to get a feel of what needs to be done accurately in terms of text book fundamentals.

[HintT]

Naitanui was over-hyped a year before he was drafted when the western media over here, in short supply of good news to extrapolate about the Eagles or Dockers, kept reminding us what an amazing talent and #1 draft pick he will be.

Nic will always be over-hyped because the media (see BruceMac) and supporters will go crazy everytime he does something.  If he turns out as good as Gary Ablett then I will eat an Essendon hat because really, there's no over way hell reach the expectations.

[Bluke]

I'll take that bet.

[bunyip]

He's the real deal alright. A big man like NicNat who can run like a deer is worth his weight in gold.

[Pav29]

I Totally Agree. Overated