NBA Debate - Help Needed

[Holz]

So im going to do a debate soon with a friend on 2 NBA topics, i obviously think im right but want to see where the FF community stood on it.

Debate 1:

All time greatest players: Was Kareem Abdul Jabbar a tier above Isiah Thomas on the all time list.

Case For:
6 Time MVP
6 Time Champion
#1 scorer in history
He is in the GOAT discussion

Case Against:
Magic Propped up Kareem and helped him get rings
IT beat MJ and other great teams
IT had to come up against a prime Bulls

Debate Number 2: Which player was better in their Prime which we are saying is 2012-2013 and 2013-2014 Joakhim Noah or Roy Hibbert

Case for Roy:
They believe better offensive players who opponents coaches had to plan for
Pushed the heat and played amazing in the 7 game series in the ECF
They believe Noah wasnt as good on offense

Case for Noah
They believe equally offesnive as same scoring and FG% (Noah marginally higher)
Noah Superior Passer
Noah was DPOY
The biggest points is Noah was All NBA 1st team and Hibbert never was All NBA 3rd team
At the time discussing Pacers > Bulls and both lost to Lebron anyway just in 5 versus in 7.


Let me know which side your on and why

[jvalles69]

Kareem for all the points you mentioned.

Noah has the personal accolades and still helped in some way if he was playing a stinker, Roy played a lot of stinkers in his time during his prime.

[Holz]

Kareem for all the points you mentioned.

Noah has the personal accolades and still helped in some way if he was playing a stinker, Roy played a lot of stinkers in his time during his prime.

ok interesting. I wont say what side im on yet.

does the other side have a valid argument though?

[jvalles69]

Kareem for all the points you mentioned.

Noah has the personal accolades and still helped in some way if he was playing a stinker, Roy played a lot of stinkers in his time during his prime.

ok interesting. I wont say what side im on yet.

does the other side have a valid argument though?

IT no, Roy and Noah are closer so could be argued either way.

Another for in Kareem's corner is perceived value of the position he plays, you could say very good PG's are more readily available, whereas big's with Kareem's skill come along once in a blue moon.

[Levi434]

IT was very very very good. Easy 1st ballot Hall of Fame talent. Had a shortened career as well. But he just is no where near Kareem status. Kareem was unstoppable at every age. Kareem even could be considered the greatest college player ever which often gets overlooked in every basketball discussion. Kareem played 4 years in college averaging 26.4 points per game on his way to 3 Collegiate titles and a 2-time College Player of the Year. Not to mention Kareem won a Finals MVP at age 38.

Hibbert and Noah irrelevant. Both spuds who wasted their potential. I'd probably say Noah is better due to the fact he is actually still on a team and in the league.

[Jay]

Bit late on this but:

A - IT isn't even in the same sentence as Kareem. Whether it's peak, or longevity Kareem has him covered easily. Those Detroit teams won because of their defense, and although he was the best player, Kareem was everything for the teams he was on in his prime. 6 MVPs, I don't think anything more needs to be said.

B - I go Noah. Had a much better offensive game being an elite passer and was more versatile defensively being able to switch onto smaller guys. A couple of those Bulls teams ran their offense through Noah, you can't dream of doing that with Hibberd.

[Holz]

Thanks guys

For the record im on the kareem noah side