FanFooty Forum

So what game is better and why?

I'm a Dream Teamer myself, Supercoach Scoring makes no sense.

SuperCoach by far, while you don't know how many points each play is going to get you, it is weighted so players with an actual influence on the game get points. Also, I'm far better at it so it has to be better :P

Quote from: BB67th on July 03, 2013, 01:24:34 PM
SuperCoach by far, while you don't know how many points each play is going to get you, it is weighted so players with an actual influence on the game get points. Also, I'm far better at it so it has to be better :P

agree

Supercoach for me ! :)

It is more about how players use the ball and if they use it well rather than just racking up touches.

But in saying that I have no DT experience.

Two trades a week is stupid as hell and takes out so much strategy in the game. Makes it easier for scrubs. SC > DT.

the SC scoring system is a joke they just make it up each week.

the 2 trades a week is even worse.

SC is less bad.

normally DT all the way but SC this year.

I like 2 trades a week more than rolling lockout

If a player gets 20 disposals which are all immediate turnover what is the score difference, just interested, do DT deduct points for that?  ???

No, they don't

Quote from: nrich102 on July 03, 2013, 01:22:33 PM
So what game is better and why?

I'm a Dream Teamer myself, Supercoach Scoring makes no sense.

SC scoring system not that hard to figure out

more influence on the game a player has the higher they will score obviously getting possessions but how they use it to efficiency is very important

if it's a pretty close game last quater is the most important any game defining plays etc are scored highly winning goal can get a player 50 points etc

I think both have their good things and bad things. Its all down to personal preference.

People with no experience in one game or the other will also just pick the game they actually play.

I have played DT for 5 years now and love the simplicity and ease of the scoring. Am going to give SC a crack next year, only then will I be able to make a reasonable judgement.

What I'm trying to say though is there really isn't one right answer here haha :P

Quote from: kilbluff1985 on July 03, 2013, 02:04:46 PM

Quote from: nrich102 on July 03, 2013, 01:22:33 PM
So what game is better and why?

I'm a Dream Teamer myself, Supercoach Scoring makes no sense.

SC scoring system not that hard to figure out

more influence on the game a player has the higher they will score obviously getting possessions but how they use it to efficiency is very important

if it's a pretty close game last quater is the most important any game defining plays etc are scored highly winning goal can get a player 50 points etc

thats in theory there are too many cases where I watch players rack up SC points for nothing and others for getting robbed. the fact they need to scale for 3300 is a joke too.

why should a hawks v sydney clash get the same ammount of points as dogs v deemons. Its the reason why griffen has been killing it.

the best scoring system would be a combo of the 2.

so you get standardised points but you take into account effeicny.

so effective kick 4 points
ineffective kick 2 points etc....

yeah that sounds good Holz kinda like sportal?

Yeah DT is shower this year. I use to be a DTer, but I'm on the SC bandwagon now babeyyy.

Quote from: kilbluff1985 on July 03, 2013, 02:20:51 PM
yeah that sounds good Holz kinda like sportal?

yeah sportal is better but its too small.

basically DT scoring with SC rules would be perfect for me.

I like the rolling lockout to counter the green vest and 30 trades is good. 24 is preferable but 30 is still better.

I want the option to choose to trade or not.

Sums it up nicely Holz ! Hopefully we something like this in the future.

Option 6 - Which ever one I do better in each season

DT for me. Agree that SC is a more accurate representation of whether a player has been effective, but I like that I can watch a game and see the DT points racking up.

All are fun though  ;)

Quote from: Holzman on July 03, 2013, 02:13:11 PM

Quote from: kilbluff1985 on July 03, 2013, 02:04:46 PM

Quote from: nrich102 on July 03, 2013, 01:22:33 PM
So what game is better and why?

I'm a Dream Teamer myself, Supercoach Scoring makes no sense.

SC scoring system not that hard to figure out

more influence on the game a player has the higher they will score obviously getting possessions but how they use it to efficiency is very important

if it's a pretty close game last quater is the most important any game defining plays etc are scored highly winning goal can get a player 50 points etc

thats in theory there are too many cases where I watch players rack up SC points for nothing and others for getting robbed. the fact they need to scale for 3300 is a joke too.

why should a hawks v sydney clash get the same ammount of points as dogs v deemons. Its the reason why griffen has been killing it.

the best scoring system would be a combo of the 2.

so you get standardised points but you take into account effeicny.

so effective kick 4 points
ineffective kick 2 points etc....

Griffen is killing it because he's averaging 29 disposals and a goal a game.

Come on Holz, don't be silly. Just because a guy is in a bad team doesn't make him a bad player.

Quote from: My Chumps on July 03, 2013, 02:50:12 PM

Quote from: Holzman on July 03, 2013, 02:13:11 PM

Quote from: kilbluff1985 on July 03, 2013, 02:04:46 PM

Quote from: nrich102 on July 03, 2013, 01:22:33 PM
So what game is better and why?

I'm a Dream Teamer myself, Supercoach Scoring makes no sense.

SC scoring system not that hard to figure out

more influence on the game a player has the higher they will score obviously getting possessions but how they use it to efficiency is very important

if it's a pretty close game last quater is the most important any game defining plays etc are scored highly winning goal can get a player 50 points etc

thats in theory there are too many cases where I watch players rack up SC points for nothing and others for getting robbed. the fact they need to scale for 3300 is a joke too.

why should a hawks v sydney clash get the same ammount of points as dogs v deemons. Its the reason why griffen has been killing it.

the best scoring system would be a combo of the 2.

so you get standardised points but you take into account effeicny.

so effective kick 4 points
ineffective kick 2 points etc....

Griffen is killing it because he's averaging 29 disposals and a goal a game.

Come on Holz, don't be silly. Just because a guy is in a bad team doesn't make him a bad player.

Yeah I agree. Poor call Holz. If Griffen played for a top side then he would get more points cause they win and scaling will go in favour heaps.

Yeah it's hard to deny Griffen is a machine. Regardless of the club ! Minus injury - SC average of 135 which Ablett's too.

If he played all games this year he is more than capable of taking out the brownlow !

I like them all for different reasons but I also find some of the differences annoying like the salary cap at the start of the year in sportal compared to prices of the players it made it very hard to get a decent starting team.

The best one atm for me is stadium sport that rewards efficiency and penalises inefficiency so if you kick it out on the full you get minus points no points for the kick at all like in DT.
They also have MPP players on there that DT etc don't have ones that we think should be MPP players.
So it means you have to think outside the normal fantasy players when picking teams players like Glass who is not traditionally a good fantasy pickup is one you can actually consider.

Quote from: My Chumps on July 03, 2013, 02:50:12 PM

Quote from: Holzman on July 03, 2013, 02:13:11 PM

Quote from: kilbluff1985 on July 03, 2013, 02:04:46 PM

Quote from: nrich102 on July 03, 2013, 01:22:33 PM
So what game is better and why?

I'm a Dream Teamer myself, Supercoach Scoring makes no sense.

SC scoring system not that hard to figure out

more influence on the game a player has the higher they will score obviously getting possessions but how they use it to efficiency is very important

if it's a pretty close game last quater is the most important any game defining plays etc are scored highly winning goal can get a player 50 points etc

thats in theory there are too many cases where I watch players rack up SC points for nothing and others for getting robbed. the fact they need to scale for 3300 is a joke too.

why should a hawks v sydney clash get the same ammount of points as dogs v deemons. Its the reason why griffen has been killing it.

the best scoring system would be a combo of the 2.

so you get standardised points but you take into account effeicny.

so effective kick 4 points
ineffective kick 2 points etc....

Griffen is killing it because he's averaging 29 disposals and a goal a game.

Come on Holz, don't be silly. Just because a guy is in a bad team doesn't make him a bad player.

I never said he is a bad player. Griffen is averaing 135 without the sub game, that puts him just behind ablett as the easily the second best SCer in the comp.

While griffen is having a good season I dont think he is having that good a season that he should be that high. He is not a bad player by any stretch but I dont think he should be anywhere near ablett.

you know who else is having a good season.

Michael Barlow: absolutely killing it and his team is doing really good. issue is he has too many people stealing points from him.
115 is a big SC score and its what griffen shoudl be averaging too.

that's a reasonable point

I dislike the lack of transparency in the SC scoring system. In my point of view that opens it to subjectivity and potential corruption.

Both comps are flawed in their scoring though.

This is Stadium sports scoring system and I personally think its the best scoring system of all comps

STAT   STADIUM POINTS
Effective Kick   6
Ineffective Kick   -1
Clanger Kick   -8
Effective Handball   2
Ineffective Handball   -1
Handball Clanger   -4
Handball receive   1
Hardball Get   5.5
Loose-Ball get   1
Goal   10
Behind   1
Mark uncontested (maintaining possession)   1
Mark contested (maintaining possession)   8
Mark uncontested (from opposition)   10
Mark contested (from opposition)   20
Tackles   3.5
Free kick for   2
Free kick against   -4
Hitout to advantage   4


Outside 50 Goal   20
Running bounce   2
Shephard   2
Smother   5
Goal Assist   5
Marks inside 50   3

Quote from: luvfooty on July 03, 2013, 03:38:21 PM
This is Stadium sports scoring system and I personally think its the best scoring system of all comps

STAT   STADIUM POINTS
Effective Kick   6
Ineffective Kick   -1
Clanger Kick   -8
Effective Handball   2
Ineffective Handball   -1
Handball Clanger   -4
Handball receive   1
Hardball Get   5.5
Loose-Ball get   1
Goal   10
Behind   1
Mark uncontested (maintaining possession)   1
Mark contested (maintaining possession)   8
Mark uncontested (from opposition)   10
Mark contested (from opposition)   20
Tackles   3.5
Free kick for   2
Free kick against   -4
Hitout to advantage   4


Outside 50 Goal   20
Running bounce   2
Shephard   2
Smother   5
Goal Assist   5
Marks inside 50   3

I really like this ! It seems fair and consistent. Would love if SC scored like this :)

looks interesting luv.

issue for me is the difference between effective and ineffective disposals.

you kick to a 2 on 1 and your team mate marks it you get an effective kick. If an opponent makrs it you get an inefective kick.

If you get a hospital pass and dispose of it quickly you will get an ineffective disposal most likely or perhaps even a clanger.

Not sure about the big differeintal 4 for effective and 2 for inefecitve seems better for me.

I dont mind DTs simplicity as stats often can lie even if you talk about innefecitve.

here is a perfect example: when I play football I get alot of uncosted marks as I run off my opponents into space and they cant catch me. Whereas on defence I man up on them and if they mark it its always a contested mark.

thats why DT is great you get the points without this gray area.

 Gary Ablett   Midfielder   157   2190.5   168.5   180.5   186.4
Scott Pendlebury   Midfielder   128   2125   163.46   155.17   155.4
Jimmy Bartel   Midfielder   171.5   2053   157.92   157.67   163.4
Jobe Watson   Midfielder   136   1902   146.31   133.67   136.1
Patrick Dangerfield   Midfielder   173.5   1892.5   145.58   152.33   149
Jarryd Roughead   Forward   166.5   1837   141.31   163   158.7
Michael Hibberd   Defender   107   1823   140.23   130   145.7
Kane Cornes   Midfielder   144   1811   139.31   127.83   122.1
Richard Douglas   Midfielder   108.5   1808   139.08   120.83   137.7
Brendon Goddard   Defender   107   1804.5   138.81   142.5   135.9

These are the top 10 players overall for stadium sport it's a bit different to the top 10 in the other comps

I voted Sportal to be different. Because as mentioned above, it's somewhere between DT and SC. :D

Play DT and SC this year (UF as well but that is DT scoring system) and I think DT is much better. The SC scoring system may 'sound' better in theory but in reality it is terrible IMO. Points for kicking a goal on the siren etc is stupid.

Going to play them all next year - DT, SC, UF as well as Sportal, Sportsbet, Stadium Sports and Centre Bets (which ones have the same scoring systems?).

I dream of a competition where one day the key defender is rewarded, and given points for spoils. Until that day, I continue to wait.....

Quote from: Master Q on July 03, 2013, 05:10:40 PM
Play DT and SC this year (UF as well but that is DT scoring system) and I think DT is much better. The SC scoring system may 'sound' better in theory but in reality it is terrible IMO. Points for kicking a goal on the siren etc is stupid.

Going to play them all next year - DT, SC, UF as well as Sportal, Sportsbet, Stadium Sports and Centre Bets (which ones have the same scoring systems?).

Sportsbet is similar to DT
Sportal and Centrebet more like SC but without the stupid 3300 cap

Stadium sport you can play anytime you want even joining now since its totally different to the other comps in that you make a weekly team every week and you make a team for each game as well

Sportal is flawed, Sports/CentreBet better! I don't agree with the Sportal scoring

TBH I don't really agree with any system which penalizes or heavily rewards affective/inaffective disposal, who decides what is inaffective?

I voted for SC. Although SC has its flaws (Cotchin vs Freo, the Heppell goal), they are generally pretty good with the way they weight their scores. I have played DT, SC and Sportal. I used to like Sportal before thy changed it back in 06 or 07, I have not really played it since. I dislike DT since I don't like the fact a player can butcher the ball, have no influence on the game and have a huge score.


I also like the rolling lockout in SC so that is another plus. They should have had the rolling lockout from last season with the way teams make late changes. The rolling lockout saved my ass in round 1 with Beams being a late withdrawal, I was able to trade him out to another premium without having to burn a trade.

If SC is about picking the most effective players, and DT is about picking the players who get the most of the ball; how can you compare them?

If a player has 30 touches a game and turns it over 15, a couple of those resulting in direct goals, DT will reward them where SC will penalise the player. SC also takes contest possessions into account, so it is about how you win and use the ball, not about how many kicks you have regardless of where they go. The perfect comparisons are Stanton and Watson. Jobe has more of an influence on games with his touches so is rewarded. Stanton, well, point made

Quote from: Mat0369 on July 03, 2013, 06:40:49 PM
If a player has 30 touches a game and turns it over 15, a couple of those resulting in direct goals, DT will reward them where SC will penalise the player. SC also takes contest possessions into account, so it is about how you win and use the ball, not about how many kicks you have regardless of where they go. The perfect comparisons are Stanton and Watson. Jobe has more of an influence on games with his touches so is rewarded. Stanton, well, point made

Still doesn't answer my question -

Saying SC is better is the exact same as saying that players being rewarded by effectiveness is better than players being rewarded by disposal count.

They are different scoring systems, so you can't REALLY compare them as they are different games (even though I think the SC scoring system is stupid). A case where you could compare is if two games share the same scoring system, but one has rolling lockout, one doesn't, for example.

lol I am talking complete crap.

Biased as I started with SC to get me into fantasy football but branched out this year into Sportal, Sportsbet and a little of DT.  Each competition has  their faults with scoring systems and subjectivity so basically it comes down to personal prefernces as what is most suited to your style of FF. 
Like BB I would like to see added to the scoring effective spoils for defenders that way we may see some Key defenders add to their average. If say we were to add 3 points for effective spoils some defenders woulld get appropriate recognition.

Quote from: BB67th on July 03, 2013, 05:11:37 PM
I dream of a competition where one day the key defender is rewarded, and given points for spoils. Until that day, I continue to wait.....

I Bring this up at the end of every year!!

Would this be right? The concept of SC is like Communism. The ideas good, but its not.

I think what we want is a system like this -

A standardized scoring system where each player is awarded as any other player where the outcome of the game is not effecting their scores. Also that points given at crucial moments in the game are no different to points given at the start of the game.

The rules of SC- 30 trades a year where a there is a maxiumum of two trades a week - The rolling lockout to be included.

Include some actions in the game where points are deserved - effective spoils.. etc.

But then again like Ringo said there is personal preference. Play whatever you like. Dont like SC - Try DT.

It is mainly about whichever one you enjoy but what I said above is what seems like most would agree on. :)

Quote from: nrich102 on July 04, 2013, 06:23:22 PM
Would this be right? The concept of SC is like Communism. The ideas good, but its not.

Hahaha I like that analogy, well done ;)

Where as some say the idea of DT is bad, but it's good. So DT > SC, because DT is good and SC is bad  :P

I think i have a fair reasoning behind which is better, and it goes against my view of which is better.

220 thousand play Dreamteam, 260-270 thousand (i don't play so don't know exactly) play Supercoach. That shouldn't be the only reasoning behind which is better but it has to be a fair indictation. :)

SC has 310k.

Quote from: PowerBug on July 05, 2013, 04:41:40 PM
I think i have a fair reasoning behind which is better, and it goes against my view of which is better.

220 thousand play Dreamteam, 260-270 thousand (i don't play so don't know exactly) play Supercoach. That shouldn't be the only reasoning behind which is better but it has to be a fair indictation. :)

not really SC has alot more advertising.

It's official, Super Coach are cheats and rig the scoring

Every week the great Dane Swan is cheated, last night proves it!

Well Swan did have a Disposal Efficiently of 41.8%. Not many effective touches for the great one.

Quote from: whatlez on July 06, 2013, 09:06:10 AM
Well Swan did have a Disposal Efficiently of 41.8%. Not many effective touches for the great one.

This is where I disagree, who says what is and isn't effective? 41% is baloney

Quote from: tbagrocks on July 06, 2013, 09:26:05 AM

Quote from: whatlez on July 06, 2013, 09:06:10 AM
Well Swan did have a Disposal Efficiently of 41.8%. Not many effective touches for the great one.

This is where I disagree, who says what is and isn't effective? 41% is baloney

Well if Swan kicks the ball straight to the opposition that would be ineffective for his team since the opposition now have the ball.
If Swan kick the ball and his teammate marks it that would be an effective kick because his team has retained the ball.

Quote from: luvfooty on July 06, 2013, 11:15:13 AM

Well if Swan kicks the ball straight to the opposition that would be ineffective for his team since the opposition now have the ball.
If Swan kick the ball and his teammate marks it that would be an effective kick because his team has retained the ball.

Yup, so many helicopter kicks that land 10 meters away from his intended target.

The definition of 'effective' and 'ineffective' kicks are flawed

Few supercoach scoring questions I have always wondered..

Effective/ Ineffective kicks:
1. What is a kick classed as if you kick the ball into space. 2 opposing players dive on the loose ball and a ball up is called? Is that effective or ineffective?
2. Also what if you kick to a 50/50 and the opposition out body the player and take the mark but a free kick is called for a push out? Does that then make it an effective kick because your player has now won the ball.
3. What is it if you kick to a player lace out and they drop a sitter and the opposition crumb the ball and take it away. Does that then make your kick ineffective because your  team mate dropped a mark all alone despite your kick being perfect?



Also something I often wonder is if someone receives a free kick but advantage is called and a team mate runs in and kicks a goal does the player that got the free kick receive a goal assist?

And lastly if a player kicks in from a kick out and directly turns it over or puts it out on the full does he get negative points for a clanger ? (He shouldnt seeings he doesnt get points for an effective kick out)

if he kicks it to himself and plays on from the kick in he gets the points from it