RIP Andrew Chan and Myuran Sukumaran.
I don't believe this was about justice this was a Political act.
#IStandForMercy
RIP
And to think that not all of their legal case thingos were done...
#Istandformercy
Respectfully disagree #Irespectindivualcountriesrightstotheirownlegalsystemandjudgments. #Australiawasnotvotedworldpoliceandshouldbemorefocusedondomesticissueslikeaborigionalinjusticesandatrocities.
Respect your opinions immensely chaps.
Rest in Peace.
Personally, I don't believe in the death penalty but they did the crime and knew the punishment The justice system in Indo is messed up though and in the end it was a political show of strength for a new president struggling to live up to his promises. Been in Indo for 7 years and drugs are a massive problem (had one friend die and a few more in dark places) but they are avoiding the main issue of poverty and lack of education. They should be doing more to cut down the local drug manufacturers as well instead of happily taking bribes to look the other way as long as it doesn't make the news...
Quote from: Boomz on April 29, 2015, 09:34:21 PM
Rest in Peace.
Personally, I don't believe in the death penalty but they did the crime and knew the punishment The justice system in Indo is messed up though and in the end it was a political show of strength for a new president struggling to live up to his promises. Been in Indo for 7 years and drugs are a massive problem (had one friend die and a few more in dark places) but they are avoiding the main issue of poverty and lack of education. They should be doing more to cut down the local drug manufacturers as well instead of happily taking bribes to look the other way as long as it doesn't make the news...
Australia is cutting its foreign aid to Indonesia, just as it has worldwide #Disgracefulfora1stworldnation. Poverty is always THE issue >no education>crime ect ect but people choose to spend millions on sports and war memorials instead of fixing social inequality my friend...priorities of the people :( I won't say anymore and wasn't hijacking thread just responded to this guy i agree with, ty.
There are many opinions wide and varied regarding the Bali9 it's been a big story for some time so most of us have one and all should be respected so if anyone does wish to post in here expressing their opinion feel free but follow the lead of those who have posted already and keep it premium please. It may of been better had i not posted i feel it was more political than justice.
The reason behind the statement isn't a protest on the death penalty and a Nations right to enforce their laws, i respect a Nations right to decide it's own laws. Everyone knows what punishment may await you if you attempt what the Bali9 attempted but i'd just like to post the points of contention i have with how Andrew and Michael were treated by the Indonesian legal system.
From the very start i was angry at how the AFP had given them up to Indonesian authorities placing the 9 kids in the position of facing the death penalty. The AFP knew nothing of what they were up to till one of the parents (Scott Rush's father) approached them stating he had concerns about a paid trip his son was going on and asked for assistance only to have his son given up to Indonesian Authorities when they could of been arrested when they landed in Sydney and dealt with here. They were exporting not importing drugs into Bali.
Since 2013 Indonesia has had a self imposed moratorium on the death penalty but Joko Widodo a recently elected President of Indonesia is only just holding power, in order for him to assure he is elected again he needs to win the popular vote of the Islamic community who the opposition currently have the support of, most of Yoko's votes came from the Muslim community. The Islamic community as we know is a supporter of the death penalty the Muslim community is divided on it as many of the poor and needy Indonesians also were punished by the death penalty and they see first hand how difficult it can be to survive and how easy it can be to end up commiting a crime that can bring death, My point being Joko see's the Islamic vote as a way to sure up his Government by looking strong on this issue. As i said there was a self imposed moratorium on the death penalty which Yoko decided to reinforce along with his Attorney General once in Government. This was a political move, i concede it is his right but
President Widodo came to power from the Indonesian provinces on a platform of anti-corruption, yet refused to consider corruption allegations made against the judges in the trial of Sukumaran and Chan.
It is unthinkable that these executions went ahead when there were still legal avenues to be pursued. Only the day before, the Indonesian Constitutional Court declared its preparedness to open a hearing on May 12 into President Widodo’s refusal to consider the circumstances under which he might grant clemency.
The Judicial Court investigation into the alleged demands of the trial judges for more than a billion rupiah, the equivalent in Australian dollars of some $130,000, to overturn a demand by the Attorney-General for the death sentence. Later increased to $1,000,000 Aus once the death penalty was imposed allegedly.
At stages through their initial arrest they were able to if they could raise the funds buy their way out of harsh sentence but coming from poor families and not being the drug lords the Indonesians and the media thought they were they could not raise the money then Political interference put the death penalty on the table and the price escalated to $1,000,000 to save their lives which of course could not be met either. Their former lawyer tabled these corruption allegations for the now President/Attorney General to review and decide on clemency or retrial , they ignored this for over a month and as far as i know still haven't read it, when questioned about the allegations the now Attorney General stated show me the proof, they have had the evidence for over a month.
To me it smacked of wanting as many witnesses out of the way as soon as possible. Their original Indonesian lawyer has had his career ruined and lives in fear of his life and im sure Lubis is concerned for his well being also as he has made alot of powerful enemies and embarrassed them.
How these men were treated towards the end and paraded for the media escorted by dozens of armed soldiers with guard dogs escorted by fighter jets on the way to the island where they would be executed a naval vessel constantly circling the island, what was that all for. Never before had any such measures ever been employed in the past it was all done as quietly as possible with minimum fuss. The bloke making their crosses and painting their names on them and the date of execution all filmed and televised which in itself was just propaganda as no crosses for graves were needed as their bodies were being flown home and they were well aware of this already so why do that. The reason i believe is to make it a big a deal as possible to push Yoko's agenda on winning the Islamic vote, the more that it's covered by the media the more see it but it was cruel in the extreme.
They still had a Constitutional Appeal trial to go set for the 12th of May but were shot anyway, how is this legal.
The prison Governor testified at their appeal trial that Andrew now an ordained minister and Myuran had been rehabilitated and were fantastic examples of it and had helped many others in their time in prison and continue to, he pleaded that they not be put to death . Fellow prisoners offered their lives instead and would be shot in their place to try to save them but all fell on deaf ears. Murderers are pardoned some of the Bali bombers were given clemency why not Andrew and Myuran. The Governor retired shortly after the hearing, i wonder why this was and was it voluntary or was he forced.
Im not against the death penalty for the worst of crimes Murder etc infact i'd like to see people such as Ivan Milat Martin Bryant put to death but i am against it being imposed on drug dealers and such crimes. These crimes shouldn't attract the death penalty imo. Long prison terms yes but not death so yes i am a little bias but respect a nations right to impose their own laws as they see fit regardless of my feelings. In this case im annoyed at the corruption and judicial influence that ultimately led to these men dying as i said i see this more as a political act by Yoko to win votes than an act of justice. The corruption allegations will be buried no doubt but the world is already asking many questions of the Indonesian Government regarding them and how this case was handled and are receiving worldwide condemnation for it and rightly so. I also find it hypocritical that Indonesia actively protests around the world against Indonesian citizens on death row while they impose it in their own country.
Im led to believe Andrew and Myuran were stoic and spent much time helping the others about to be shot get through the ordeal
and translated to the others what was being said to and asked of them. Apparently they were singing when they were shot.
I accept it's Nations right to impose their laws as they see fit but i don't except judicial influence and corruption in the name of justice. If this happened here people would be going to prison.
Joko Widodo is a weak politician. He's towing the party line so he doesn't come under any kind of pressure from within the party. Killing these guys puts them on a list with countries like Iraq, Libya, North Korea, Sudan, South Sudan and Syria. If I was president of a country I would love to be on this list ::)
Think the moral of the story is to not become massive drug dealers...
Quote from: Jayman on April 30, 2015, 09:08:39 AM
Think the moral of the story is to not become massive drug dealers...
Don't break the law, can't get in trouble eyyy?
Yeah lots wrong with what happened, I'm unsure on what stance to take on the whole thing. :-/
I blame rap music. I'm looking at you, 50 cent.
Quote from: nrich102 on April 30, 2015, 07:38:28 AM
Joko Widodo is a weak politician. He's towing the party line so he doesn't come under any kind of pressure from within the party. Killing these guys puts them on a list with countries like Iraq, Libya, North Korea, Sudan, South Sudan and Syria. If I was president of a country I would love to be on this list ::)
Iraq...Armed by America to fight Iran then turned on for Oil & to generally create instability in the middle east
Libya...Another middle eastern country interfered with, lol within days of the Americans/UN entering the conflict American oil tankers were docked once they had air superiority...wars cost money might as well take some oil to help pay for it.
North Korea... similar to Vietnam in regards to it being a country kept divided when it should be unified, America naturally supports the wealthy south and it's blockade's & embargo's go a long way to stopping the North developing/ keeping them in poverty, they gave the Israelis Nuclear weapons and they have them but no one else should have em right?
Syria....is a pawn being used against the Russians/Iranians...America arms the Rebel groups (who actually fight each other as well) to fight and destabilize the Government.
Sudan.....is the odd one out, it's civil violence is ethic i.e Muslims vs Blacks...this is actually a case were the western world probably should have helped to stop the genocide and mass murder but there is no strategic/economic gains to be had so we sat back and watched them butcher each other.
America always needs an enemy, can't have so much money tied up in military just sitting there can we.
Russian knew that the Yanks would turn back to the old ''Anti Communist'' ways once the destabilizing of the Middle east was completed because its 2 main rivals in economic/military power are of course Russian/China.
If you think that America and the west are any less corrupt than some third world dictators you are fooling yourself, and probably listening to too much government/self interested propaganda, "We are the good guys & You are the bad" O' if only life were so simple, Religion....''Good vs Evil, Black & White'' ::) ::) ::)
This may read like a conspiracy theory to anyone who hasn't read much about history but to take a quote from one of my favourite fantasy novels, ''Words are wind"....America's actions and foreign policy tell the real story not the White house or Canberra's Rhetoric.
Destabilizing the Middle East "Arab Spring" is part of a simple war strategy called Divide & Conquer...they can't bother Israel if they are fighting amongst themselves can they?
It sickens me that we are in league with the Americans and not concentrating on closer ties in our own region Asia, old tribalist thinking perhaps? whites stick together because we have more in common?
Quote from: meow meow on April 30, 2015, 12:33:03 PM
I blame rap music. I'm looking at you, 50 cent.
ahaha yeah, Pac makes me wanna shoot some pigs ''N**** we hit em up"
Those boys knew what would happen if they got caught. Now they and their families are crying fowl.
I have also heard stories about some of the horrible things these 2 did. I have no respect for them but i dont not approve that they should be shot and killed as punishment.
Australia must be consistent about the death penalty no matter what country it involves never hear much about the USA or China there is an aussie on death row there now didn't hear a peep when the Bali bombers were executed , personally being shot for what they did is to harsh but that is the law you don't see the others in the Bali 9 helping others or becoming ministers no because they did not get the death penalty anyway RIP to them and there is scum in our prisons that would deserve the death penalty much more than these 2 chaps they just did it in the wrong country
They didn't give a flower about the 100s of deaths they were indirectly causing through overdoses (I know it's a person's choice to take drugs). So why would I care about them getting shot?
Quote from: Pkbaldy on April 30, 2015, 04:14:13 PM
They didn't give a flower about the 100s of deaths they were indirectly causing through overdoses (I know it's a person's choice to take drugs). So why would I care about them getting shot?
I don't think the argument is that you should care about it, it's that their deaths don't really achieve anything other than pain and suffering for the families. So why kill them? That's what I've discerned anyway...
Quote from: shaker on April 30, 2015, 03:52:18 PM
Australia must be consistent about the death penalty no matter what country it involves never hear much about the USA or China there is an aussie on death row there now didn't hear a peep when the Bali bombers were executed , personally being shot for what they did is to harsh but that is the law you don't see the others in the Bali 9 helping others or becoming ministers no because they did not get the death penalty anyway RIP to them and there is scum in our prisons that would deserve the death penalty much more than these 2 chaps they just did it in the wrong country
This is what I struggle to understand as well - For years, Indonesia (and many other countries) have had the death penalty in place. Everyone was just like "sure Indonesia, if you want to kill people, you can". But now that Indonesia actually decides to exercise this power, everyone goes crazy over it. You can't pick and choose your battles. You're either against the death penalty or you're not.
Yes they knew the laws and took the risk but does anyone honestly think they would attemp it again after their time in prison?
I'm all for the death penalty for people who have committed unspeakable crimes and are a legitimate danger to society that can't be rehabilitated but drug smugglers are not those people.
They made a poor choice probably because they were forced to or were lured by the pay check but that doesn't deserve death
Quote from: Grufflez on April 30, 2015, 02:06:15 PM
Quote from: nrich102 on April 30, 2015, 07:38:28 AM
Joko Widodo is a weak politician. He's towing the party line so he doesn't come under any kind of pressure from within the party. Killing these guys puts them on a list with countries like Iraq, Libya, North Korea, Sudan, South Sudan and Syria. If I was president of a country I would love to be on this list ::)
Iraq...Armed by America to fight Iran then turned on for Oil & to generally create instability in the middle east
Libya...Another middle eastern country interfered with, lol within days of the Americans/UN entering the conflict American oil tankers were docked once they had air superiority...wars cost money might as well take some oil to help pay for it.
North Korea... similar to Vietnam in regards to it being a country kept divided when it should be unified, America naturally supports the wealthy south and it's blockade's & embargo's go a long way to stopping the North developing/ keeping them in poverty, they gave the Israelis Nuclear weapons and they have them but no one else should have em right?
Syria....is a pawn being used against the Russians/Iranians...America arms the Rebel groups (who actually fight each other as well) to fight and destabilize the Government.
Sudan.....is the odd one out, it's civil violence is ethic i.e Muslims vs Blacks...this is actually a case were the western world probably should have helped to stop the genocide and mass murder but there is no strategic/economic gains to be had so we sat back and watched them butcher each other.
America always needs an enemy, can't have so much money tied up in military just sitting there can we.
Russian knew that the Yanks would turn back to the old ''Anti Communist'' ways once the destabilizing of the Middle east was completed because its 2 main rivals in economic/military power are of course Russian/China.
If you think that America and the west are any less corrupt than some third world dictators you are fooling yourself, and probably listening to too much government/self interested propaganda, "We are the good guys & You are the bad" O' if only life were so simple, Religion....''Good vs Evil, Black & White'' ::) ::) ::)
This may read like a conspiracy theory to anyone who hasn't read much about history but to take a quote from one of my favourite fantasy novels, ''Words are wind"....America's actions and foreign policy tell the real story not the White house or Canberra's Rhetoric.
Destabilizing the Middle East "Arab Spring" is part of a simple war strategy called Divide & Conquer...they can't bother Israel if they are fighting amongst themselves can they?
It sickens me that we are in league with the Americans and not concentrating on closer ties in our own region Asia, old tribalist thinking perhaps? whites stick together because we have more in common?
I half agree with you mate. I think that we are far too close to America compared to other countries around us and I think that. America does a lot of wrong, but at the same time so do the nations I listed above and I would blame America for everything that has happened there, but they do make it escalate with giving out guns etc.
Quote from: quinny88 on April 30, 2015, 04:48:31 PM
Yes they knew the laws and took the risk but does anyone honestly think they would attemp it again after their time in prison?
I'm all for the death penalty for people who have committed unspeakable crimes and are a legitimate danger to society that can't be rehabilitated but drug smugglers are not those people.
They made a poor choice probably because they were forced to or were lured by the pay check but that doesn't deserve death
But what if their reform was only enabled by being constantly aware of their approaching deaths?
Quote from: Big Mac on April 30, 2015, 04:41:04 PM
Quote from: Pkbaldy on April 30, 2015, 04:14:13 PM
They didn't give a flower about the 100s of deaths they were indirectly causing through overdoses (I know it's a person's choice to take drugs). So why would I care about them getting shot?
I don't think the argument is that you should care about it, it's that their deaths don't really achieve anything other than pain and suffering for the families. So why kill them? That's what I've discerned anyway...
Quote from: shaker on April 30, 2015, 03:52:18 PM
Australia must be consistent about the death penalty no matter what country it involves never hear much about the USA or China there is an aussie on death row there now didn't hear a peep when the Bali bombers were executed , personally being shot for what they did is to harsh but that is the law you don't see the others in the Bali 9 helping others or becoming ministers no because they did not get the death penalty anyway RIP to them and there is scum in our prisons that would deserve the death penalty much more than these 2 chaps they just did it in the wrong country
This is what I struggle to understand as well - For years, Indonesia (and many other countries) have had the death penalty in place. Everyone was just like "sure Indonesia, if you want to kill people, you can". But now that Indonesia actually decides to exercise this power, everyone goes crazy over it. You can't pick and choose your battles. You're either against the death penalty or you're not.
This country rejoiced when the Bali bombers were executed because of the loss of Australians politicians said justice had been done well you can't pick and choose as you said I'm sure the families who have lost loved ones because of heroin rejoiced as well , the real problem is our politicians are piss weak along with our justice system
Quote from: shaker on April 30, 2015, 03:52:18 PM
Australia must be consistent about the death penalty no matter what country it involves never hear much about the USA or China there is an aussie on death row there now didn't hear a peep when the Bali bombers were executed , personally being shot for what they did is to harsh but that is the law you don't see the others in the Bali 9 helping others or becoming ministers no because they did not get the death penalty anyway RIP to them and there is scum in our prisons that would deserve the death penalty much more than these 2 chaps they just did it in the wrong country
Totally agree. No matter what the country or where the individual on death row comes from (or the crime committed) the death penalty is just wrong.
The majority of Australians were cheering in the streets when the bali bombers were sentenced to death, which I felt uneasy about and then shouted their disgust when these 2 scumbags were shot to death, which I feel uneasy about.
Andrew Chan and Myuran Sukamaran deserve no sympathy at all - they knew what they were doing and the consequences - but I feel for their families.
I just with the hypocrisy of the Australian people doesn't continue. The next death from the death penalty from a person in China, the US or Saudi Arabia etc should be protested as much, regardless whether it is an Aussie or not.
It won't happen AK, as much as it should. The same protesting will not happen :(
Quote from: Capper on April 30, 2015, 02:53:57 PM
Those boys knew what would happen if they got caught. Now they and their families are crying fowl.
I have also heard stories about some of the horrible things these 2 did. I have no respect for them but i dont not approve that they should be shot and killed as punishment.
My thoughts on the situation same as your's Tabsy.
Death penalties have been shown to have little effect actually deterring crime (studied like 2 years about this, and did a few essays on it). Although they were rehabilitating after they got caught, have to respect Indonesia's laws even if you don't agree with them. They were the known consequences, although I don't like how the Indonesia Gov. were trying to use this as an example towards others.
My issue isn't about the death penalty my issue in Andrew's and Myuran's trial is the corruption and the political influence. There's a few other issues but mainly those. When a person is on death row they are two things you do not want in question surely and if you have an Appeal pending on May 12th how can u be put to death before it.
Quote from: Grazz on May 01, 2015, 11:52:39 PM
My issue isn't about the death penalty my issue in Andrew's and Myuran's trial is the corruption and the political influence. There's a few other issues but mainly those. When a person is on death row they are two things you do not want in question surely and if you have an Appeal pending on May 12th how can u be put to death before it.
Basically under Indonesian law, they have no right to that appeal in the first place hence why the Indonesian government just ignored it. They were lucky to even get their previous appeal into a court legally.
Quote from: Boomz on May 02, 2015, 01:07:03 AM
Quote from: Grazz on May 01, 2015, 11:52:39 PM
My issue isn't about the death penalty my issue in Andrew's and Myuran's trial is the corruption and the political influence. There's a few other issues but mainly those. When a person is on death row they are two things you do not want in question surely and if you have an Appeal pending on May 12th how can u be put to death before it.
Basically under Indonesian law, they have no right to that appeal in the first place hence why the Indonesian government just ignored it. They were lucky to even get their previous appeal into a court legally.
The court agreed to hear the case on May12th which would of been another platform for the corruption allegations to aired. Regardless of wether they had a right to it a court agreed to hear it on the evidence tabled but still they were shot, gives pause to think why when 2 others received stays of execution due to new evidence, but that's evidence that won't embarass Indonesia i guess.
Like ive said it's the process not the punishment that has me up in arms, i hope ive made that clear here.
http://www.theage.com.au/national/australian-catholic-university-reveals-scholarships-to-honour-executed-bali-9-duo-20150501-1mxmdp.html
No matter what your views are on the death penalty and like Grazz I still question the process involved (especially the corruption in the Indonesian Leagal System) this is totally despicable in my opinion.
It is setting theses 2 up as some sort of heroes which is wrong. Do not forget they are still drug smugglers and we all know the damage drugs do to the community.
Do not mean to be callous but to me it is smuggle drugs in Indonesia, Malsysia or Singapore eventually get executed as a result of those countries death penalty and then be honoured with a scholarship or similar,
Quote from: Ringo on May 02, 2015, 10:51:23 AM
http://www.theage.com.au/national/australian-catholic-university-reveals-scholarships-to-honour-executed-bali-9-duo-20150501-1mxmdp.html
No matter what your views are on the death penalty and like Grazz I still question the process involved (especially the corruption in the Indonesian Leagal System) this is totally despicable in my opinion.
It is setting theses 2 up as some sort of heroes which is wrong. Do not forget they are still drug smugglers and we all know the damage drugs do to the community.
Do not mean to be callous but to me it is smuggle drugs in Indonesia, Malsysia or Singapore eventually get executed as a result of those countries death penalty and then be honoured with a scholarship or similar,
Saw that Ringo and think it has been canned already if not it will be , who ever came up with that would have to have there qualifications questioned
I care more about the aboriginal land grab currently taking place....one does not simply ''close down'' 170 communities, thinly veiled disguise at displacing and stealing more land from indigenous peoples and if the vast majority of Australia's do not stop this i officially label us complete racists. and that whole ''sorry'' speech will mean absolutely nothing, perhaps it's time for the aboriginals to stop using words.....white man talk is worth less than shower.
FYI (white English/Scotish heritage here).
I think the Government loves keeping people distracted by media driven nonsense and trivial issues.
Quote from: Grufflez on May 02, 2015, 02:33:50 PM
I care more about the aboriginal land grab currently taking place....one does not simply ''close down'' 170 communities, thinly veiled disguise at displacing and stealing more land from indigenous peoples and if the vast majority of Australia's do not stop this i officially label us complete racists. and that whole ''sorry'' speech will mean absolutely nothing, perhaps it's time for the aboriginals to stop using words.....white man talk is worth less than shower.
FYI (white English/Scotish heritage here).
I think the Government loves keeping people distracted by media driven nonsense and trivial issues.
Somewhat relevant
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QWafOPX2SPQ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QWafOPX2SPQ)
All else aside, Grazz if you support capital punishment for things like murder, then you should support it for huge drug smugglers- their actions destroy so many lives and kill people as well... the only difference is they make cash from it on the way.
To clarify, I don't support capital punishment at all. Life in prison, I do support. The death penalty carries with it a finality (obviously) that, if mistakes are made in the justice system, is irreversible. People like Lindy Chamberlain (to use a classic example), could be put to death incorrectly.
That being said, I stayed well out of the whole bali 9 execution thing. I can see why people wanted clemency based on ideology/ personal belief. I can also see why people think that because they knew what they were doing, they knew the penalty and were destroying people's lives, that the fuss over it was excessive.
And honestly, if Australia wanted to make a stand on capital punishment, we could have picked far, far more deserving people. That being said, if they'd been assessed as rehabilitated, it doesn't make sense to put them to death- if they're rehabilitated and you still kill them, what's the point of prison? It's literally there for rehabilitation- if you don't accept rehabilitation then you might as well just have capital punishment for every offence.
Honestly, these guys were complete scumbags, and frankly anyone who believes otherwise is either deluded, an idiot or brainwashed by the sensationalism of the media. However, if they'd been rehabilitated/ changed as people, which I think is quite probable, they should have had their sentences cut to life imprisonment- if indonesia didn't want to deal with the cost of maintaining them in prison they could have been sent back to Australia, or we could have paid the cost.
Anyway, flower it, it's over now, and honestly it's going to make it a flower ton less likely any aussie is going to try to smuggle a showerload of drugs into indonesia.
Quote from: Ziplock on May 02, 2015, 03:31:06 PM
All else aside, Grazz if you support capital punishment for things like murder, then you should support it for huge drug smugglers- their actions destroy so many lives and kill people as well... the only difference is they make cash from it on the way.
To clarify, I don't support capital punishment at all. Life in prison, I do support. The death penalty carries with it a finality (obviously) that, if mistakes are made in the justice system, is irreversible. People like Lindy Chamberlain (to use a classic example), could be put to death incorrectly.
That being said, I stayed well out of the whole bali 9 execution thing. I can see why people wanted clemency based on ideology/ personal belief. I can also see why people think that because they knew what they were doing, they knew the penalty and were destroying people's lives, that the fuss over it was excessive.
And honestly, if Australia wanted to make a stand on capital punishment, we could have picked far, far more deserving people. That being said, if they'd been assessed as rehabilitated, it doesn't make sense to put them to death- if they're rehabilitated and you still kill them, what's the point of prison? It's literally there for rehabilitation- if you don't accept rehabilitation then you might as well just have capital punishment for every offence.
Honestly, these guys were complete scumbags, and frankly anyone who believes otherwise is either deluded, an idiot or brainwashed by the sensationalism of the media. However, if they'd been rehabilitated/ changed as people, which I think is quite probable, they should have had their sentences cut to life imprisonment- if indonesia didn't want to deal with the cost of maintaining them in prison they could have been sent back to Australia, or we could have paid the cost.
Anyway, flower it, it's over now, and honestly it's going to make it a flower ton less likely any aussie is going to try to smuggle a showerload of drugs into indonesia.
I agree with Grazz about capital punishment for certain crimes but that is not going to happen what I would like to see is people who kill once be locked up for good that would have meant that a beautiful girl like miss Cafferky would be alive and for dogs like the one that raped and killed miss Meagher would have been in jail with his priors instead on the streets , but this country would rather lock up people that do crimes for money and let violent criminals run free , perfect example the drug flowered creep that shot his girlfriend in the stomach with a shotgun pushed her out of the car at a servo and left she died and he got 5 years ..... something very wrong with our justice system >:(
Nuh Zip don't support for drug dealers but respect a Nations right ti impose it's own laws.
The nine took the risk and two ultimately paid with their lives knowing the law this i can accept but dislike it.
The corruption of the judges and political influence in a case where people could possibly face the death penalty can't / shouldn't happen anywhere.
I really can't bring myself to care for two drug smugglers
This pretty much sums up my feelings on the two of them (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WZusf9_Bjx0) [nsfw]
Just want to recognize Grazz for speaking his mind on a contentious issue and giving others the opportunity to word their thoughts on the subject, and i think that The Front Bar is the appropriate place for such topics, we all love our footy but it's nice to be able to get a better insight into the minds of some of our fellow SC coaches. ;)
Quote from: Big Mac on May 02, 2015, 02:38:27 PM
Quote from: Grufflez on May 02, 2015, 02:33:50 PM
I care more about the aboriginal land grab currently taking place....one does not simply ''close down'' 170 communities, thinly veiled disguise at displacing and stealing more land from indigenous peoples and if the vast majority of Australia's do not stop this i officially label us complete racists. and that whole ''sorry'' speech will mean absolutely nothing, perhaps it's time for the aboriginals to stop using words.....white man talk is worth less than shower.
FYI (white English/Scotish heritage here).
I think the Government loves keeping people distracted by media driven nonsense and trivial issues.
Somewhat relevant
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QWafOPX2SPQ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QWafOPX2SPQ)
LOL but also :'( :'( :'( He leads us.....
Great thread and a lot of respect shown for each others opinions, unlike all the crap I keep seeing on social media, good work.
To me the facts were they were drug dealers who got caught in a country that dealt the death penalty for such action and that was the risk they took and so be it, regardless of if they deserved the punishment. To tell another nation how they should run the legal system is absolute garbage even if it is barabaric, maybe a bit of money into education to make their own decision to change their laws would be a better option. Politicians are like kids, you tell them not to do something and you can be sure they will do it out of stubborness and their own agendas. The corruption side of Indonesia is also garbage.
I do wish we had tougher laws here in Oz, some of the shower that goes down these days are horrible. My idea would be to have a list of crimes that fall into their own category, ie murder, rape, paedophilia etc. 1 strike and you get jailed for the appropriate term to fit the crime. If you get released and commit any of these crimes again then thats death row for you buddy, that person has shown no signs of rehabilitation.
My thought is both ways. Point 1 - The two of them are/were no threat to society if left in jail. Point 2, they took the risk and got caught. We all saw how they were shown to be rehabilitated, but if they weren't caught, would there be a different " Bali 9 " 5 years later?. I'm not sure if anyone knows, but was this their first attempt?, or had they done it prior and got away with it.
Either way, I feel so sorry for their families. Just try and picture your loved one in that position
I'm pretty on-the-fence on it too
They knew what they were doing and getting into and the punishment for it and we should respect the Indonesian justice system's right to fully prosecute them. Should trafficking drugs really be a death sentence when so much worse stuff happens every day? Probably not, especially seeing as they were rehabilitated and all that, but in the end what has happened has happened and there are more important things in the world going on than the fate of two criminals, like that earthquake that's killed 7000+ people or the fact that the dons are going to smoke Freo in their own backyard this Saturday.
There is a letter (Supposedly) doing the rounds from a policeman going around social media.
Quote from: nas on May 05, 2015, 07:06:04 AM
There is a letter (Supposedly) doing the rounds from a policeman going around social media.
Yep I have read that