Substitute data - do we need it?

[Patrician]

Click here for Sub stats


Since this is the second year of the much-maligned sub rule (and cause I'm bored), thought I might raise this.

In looking at player performance from last year, one thing I am finding interesting is to work out how many times a player has been a sub (or subbed) by going through the player news updates. Then I dump a player's scores into Excel and remove their scores for those rounds, to try and give me an idea of their average SC score when they are on for a full or close to full game.

Its also good to see how often a player is the sub or being subbed in general.

However, this is all quite time consuming.  ::)

I thought it might be handy to have, as part of the player profile on FanFooty in their Career Statistics (or anywhere), a mark next to a round where the player was the sub or subbed. Would also be great to have a yearly tally.

Finally, what would be really awesome would be to have two averages, one with a player's sub games and one without.

Does anyone else think this might be handy? Or is this not needed at all?

No idea how much work is involved or if the data is easily available. My apologies if this is easily accessible elsewhere or a non-issue.

[Speculator]

would be extremely handy

[ossie85]

I give you a cheer now, and a couple when it's done :)

[Matty411]

Love the idea Pat - would be especially handy with these 2nd year players looking to cement their spot in their clubs best 21 i.e. Gaff, Shuey and co. given they were the most affected by the sub rule

[Patrician]

Cheers all  8)

Mathematically, we have 32 players out a round (2 subs and approx 2 subbed) except for the multi bye rounds when you have 28 out.  748 instances to identify. Eeep.

Its all there in the 2011 game archives to be picked up. Just a matter of whether it can be done automatically or whether someone has to trawl their way through. 

EDIT: I can't count or add, by the way. Think I have to total instances right  :-\

[Roy.G.Biv]

Great idea Pat.
The other day i was checking out Rockliff's stats and especially his sub affected score of 59.
I actually scrolled through the match blog to try and work out when he was subbed off.
It appears it was very early on in the 3rd term, so I'd say he was heading for a 100/110+ score, which would raise his yearly average by 2pts. (Probably not the best example, lol.)

But yeah, its been extremely time consuming when researching the likes of your Gaffs, Liam Anthonys, etc......

P.s It's 36 players out a round.

[ossie85]

P.s It's 36 players out a round.

Thought that too initially, but he's talking 2011 players, not 2012

[CrowsFan]

Interesting concept to look at so decided to do an analysis of the Crows for 2011 regarding the sub and this is what I came up with (might eventually get to the other clubs) ;)

Adelaide Scores When Sub/Subbed

Round 1
Sub (Score) - Brodie Smith (48)
Subbed (Score) - Jason Porplyzia (13) - injured

Round 3
Sub (Score) - Brodie Martin (45)
Subbed (Score) - Phil Davis (46) - injured

Round 4
Sub (Score) - Matthew Wright (25)
Subbed (Score) - Ivan Maric (43)

Round 5
Sub (Score) - Brodie Martin (29)
Subbed (Score) - Matthew Jaensch (29) - injured

Round 6
Sub (Score) - Brad Symes (88)
Subbed (Score) - Phil Davis (8.) - injured

Round 7
Sub (Score) - Jared Petrenko (10)
Subbed (Score) - Patrick Dangerfield (52) - injured

Round 8
Sub (Score) - Brodie Smith (7)
Subbed (Score) - Chris Schmidt (79)

Round 9
Sub (Score) - Richard Tambling (12)
Subbed (Score) - Chris Schmidt (38)

Round 10
Sub (Score) - Jared Petrenko (10)
Subbed (Score) - Taylor Walker (33)

Round 11
Sub (Score) - Brad Symes (30)
Subbed (Score) - Jared Petrenko (55)

Round 12
Sub (Score) - Brad Symes (30)
Subbed (Score) - Kurt Tippett (17) - injured

Round 13
Sub (Score) - Chris Schmidt (31)
Subbed (Score) - Chris Knights (20) - injured

Round 14
Sub (Score) - Jack Gunston (18)
Subbed (Score) - Shaun McKernan (14)

Round 15
Sub (Score) - Richard Tambling (45)
Subbed (Score) - Matthew Wright (18)

Round 17
Sub (Score) - Brodie Smith (12)
Subbed (Score) - Graham Johncock (50)

Round 18
Sub (Score) - Brodie Smith (35)
Subbed (Score) - Brad Symes (25)

Round 19
Sub (Score) - Aidan Riley (10)
Subbed (Score) - Daniel Talia (48)

Round 20
Sub (Score) - Ricky Henderson (44)
Subbed (Score) - Chris Knights (24) - injured

Round 21
Sub (Score) - Brodie Smith (3)
Subbed (Score) - Aidan Riley (24)

Round 22
Sub (Score) - Aidan Riley (21)
Subbed (Score) - Matthew Wright (48)

Round 23
Sub (Score) - Brodie Martin (3)
Subbed (Score) - Shaun McKernan (51)

Round 24
Sub (Score) - Matthew Wright (19)
Subbed (Score) - Tony Armstrong (31) - injured


Number of Times Starting as Sub or Subbed

Started as Sub
Brodie Smith - 5 times
Brad Symes - 3 times
Brodie Martin - 3 times
Matthew Wright - 2 times
Jared Petrenko - 2 times
Richard Tambling - 2 times
Aidan Riley - 2 times
Chris Schmidt - 1 time
Jack Gunston - 1 time
Ricky Henderson - 1 time

Subbed Off
Phil Davis - 2 times (both due to injury)
Chris Knights - 2 times (both due to injury)
Chris Schmidt - 2 times
Shaun McKernan - 2 times
Matthew Wright - 2 times
Jason Porplyzia - 1 time (due to injury)
Matthew Jaensch - 1 time (due to injury)
Patrick Dangerfield - 1 time (due to injury)
Taylor Walker - 1 time (due to injury)
Kurt Tippett - 1 time (due to injury)
Graham Johncock - 1 time (due to injury)
Tony Armstrong - 1 time (due to injury)
Ivan Maric - 1 time
Jared Petrenko - 1 time
Brad Symes - 1 time
Daniel Talia - 1 time
Aidan Riley - 1 time


Summary
So as you can see from the starting subs, the Crows either have something against guys who's names begin with 'B' (Brodie Martin, Brodie Smith and Brad Symes) as they started as sub a combined 11 times between them, or they just prefer to have someone who has got pace and can help add run either through the middle or from the back late in a game when everyone is tiring. Not all that surprising really.
Regarding the people subbed it generally looks like it has just been used as a necessity most of the time with 11 times the sub being forced due to injury.

Regarding the effect on SC scores I will just look at Brodie Smith really quickly. In 2011 he averaged 50.07 from his 14 games. But he started as sub in 5 of those games, in those games he scored 48, 7, 12, 35, 3. If we exclude those from his scores he averaged  66.22 from 9 games, which is very respectable for a first year defender :)

[Patrician]

Wow CrowsFan...just....wow  :o

Yeah, your work on Brodie Smith is exactly the kind of thing I'm interested in. Brilliant!

I have got to compiling the names up to round 10 from last year......and indeed B is not a good letter to have your first name(Ben Cunnington, Ben Nason, Brent Buerra, Brad Dick, Brad Helbig, Ben Speight) and Brodie isn't a good name either  ;D (e.g. Brodie Moles).

I hope to have the rest of 2011's names done soon. Then, might get to the scores of each at some point.

As a random thought - going through the rounds made me remember just how brutal things were at the start of last year. Porplyzia, Brown, Hayes, Winderlinch....etc....

[ossie85]

A++++

[CrowsFan]

Just finished the analysis on the Brisbane games. And this is what I got...

Brisbane Scores When Sub/Subbed

Round 1
Sub (Score) - Amon Buchanan (42)
Subbed (Score) - Claye Beams (45) - injured

Round 2
Sub (Score) - Claye Beams (11)
Subbed (Score) - Broc McCauley (34)

Round 3
Sub (Score) - Rohan Bewick (38)
Subbed (Score) - Aaron Cornelius (34)

Round 5
Sub (Score) - Aaron Cornelius (42)
Subbed (Score) - Rohan Bewick (22) - injured

Round 6
Sub (Score) - Jared Polec (18)
Subbed (Score) - Matt Maguire (34)

Round 7
Sub (Score) - Jesse O'Brien (17)
Subbed (Score) - Andrew Raines (28) - injured

Round 8
Sub (Score) - Ryan Harwood (47)
Subbed (Score) - James Polkinghorne (0) - injured

Round 9
Sub (Score) - Rohan Bewick (35)
Subbed (Score) - Tom Rockliff (59) - injured

Round 10
Sub (Score) - Jesse O'Brien (9)
Subbed (Score) - Rohan Bewick (37)

Round 11
Sub (Score) - Jesse O'Brien (26)
Subbed (Score) - Rohan Bewick (20)

Round 12
Sub (Score) - Joshua Green (19)
Subbed (Score) - Bryce Retzlaff (27)

Round 13
Sub (Score) - Patrick Karnezis (47)
Subbed (Score) - Mitchell Clark (43) - injured

Round 14
Sub (Score) - Ryan Harwood (35)
Subbed (Score) - Patrick Karnezis (52)

Round 15
Sub (Score) - Rohan Bewick (31)
Subbed (Score) - Bryce Retzlaff (36) - injured

Round 16
Sub (Score) - Rohan Bewick (20)
Subbed (Score) - Bryce Retzlaff (12)

Round 17
Sub (Score) - Ryan Harwood (2)
Subbed (Score) - Jonathan Brown (50) - injured

Round 18
Sub (Score) - Amon Buchanan (32)
Subbed (Score) - James Hawksley (61)

Round 20
Sub (Score) - Josh Dyson (30)
Subbed (Score) - Joel Patfull (4) - injured

Round 21
Sub (Score) - Patrick Karnezis (37)
Subbed (Score) - Aaron Cornelius (19)

Round 22
Sub (Score) - Daniel Rich (28)
Subbed (Score) - Patrick Karnezis (13)

Round 23
Sub (Score) - Patrick Karnezis (51)
Subbed (Score) - Brent Staker (13) - injured

Round 24
Sub (Score) - Amon Buchanan (35)
Subbed (Score) - Bryce Retzlaff (10)


Number of Times Starting as Sub or Subbed

Started as Sub
Rohan Bewick - 4 times
Amon Buchanan - 3 times
Patrick Karnezis - 3 times
Jesse O'Brien - 3 times
Ryan Harwood - 3 times
Claye Beams - 1 times
Aaron Cornelius - 1time
Jared Polec - 1time
Joshua Green - 1time
Josh Dyson - 1time
Daniel Rich - 1time

Subbed Off
Bryce Retzlaff - 4 times (1 due to injury)
Rohan Bewick - 3 times (1 due to injury)
Aaron Cornelius - 2 times
Patrick Karnezis - 2 times
Claye Beams - 1 time (due to injury)
Andrew Raines - 1 time (due to injury)
James Polkinghorne - 1 time (due to injury)
Tom Rockliff - 1 time (due to injury)
Mitchell Clark - 1 time (due to injury)
Jonathan Brown - 1 time (due to injury)
Joel Patfull - 1 time (due to injury)
Brent Staker - 1 time (due to injury)
Broc McCauley - 1 time
Matt Maguire - 1 time
James Hawksley - 1 time


Summary
Like Adelaide, Brisbane have shown they seem to have some preferred starting subs in their team. During the first 7 weeks 7 different players were the starting sub, but after that favouritism was shown. A bunch of 5 players were the sub a massive 16 of the 22 times!! Regarding being subbed off, 10 were due to injury, whilst the other 12 were for strategy. Again some pattern emerges with 9 of the remaining 12 subs shared between 4 players.

The sub vest has appeared to affect Rohan Bewick the most. In the 12 matches that he played, he only played a full game 5 times, since he was the started sub 4 times, and was subbed off 3 times! His 12 game average was only 38.42, but if you remove the sub affected scores his average increases to 51.6. Still not a good enough score for me to consider selecting though.

[Patrician]

Nice!

I have completed the names...serious RSI now though.  ;)

Upload folder is full, aparently. I will try and host by some other means. Might ask Ossie nicely if he can host from his site.  ;D

[ossie85]

Nice!

I have completed the names...serious RSI now though.  ;)

Upload folder is full, aparently. I will try and host by some other means. Might ask Ossie nicely if he can host from his site.  ;D

No probs

[ossie85]

http://league32.wordpress.com/2012/01/06/substitute-teacher/

[CrowsFan]

Very nice.
Looks like Pat doesn't need my help anymore ;)