Prob with Nick

[valkorum]

Its simple:  The zone has killed Roo.  He is used to running his opponent all day and taking leading up marks.  Now they just zone off and while he keeps running, the defenders only have to run 20m before the next team mate takes over.  Meaning Roo cant get free from an opponent and has to try and take more contested marks. 

He is not that good a contested mark as everything makes him out to be.  99 marks this year and only 19 contested (20%).  Cloke has 60% of his marks as contested, Brown 45%, Fyfe 40%, Kennedy, Jpod and Q Lynch 33%.

[ossie85]

Agree valk. This year has really seen Riewoldt's colours lowered. I had him very much up there in terms of the greats until this year, where he seems to consistently get beaten. Perhaps he has lost the hunger?

[AFEV]

I have been thinking the same thing Valk.
He used to be a much better contested mark when his opponents were knackered though.

[valkorum]

Agree valk. This year has really seen Riewoldt's colours lowered. I had him very much up there in terms of the greats until this year, where he seems to consistently get beaten. Perhaps he has lost the hunger?

I have never had him up there with the greats.  Maybe being over here in WA I get bugger all media coverage of Vic players so I have to make up my decision based on results and watching him play.

Brown, Buddy and Pav are FAR better CHF's than Roo.  Roo is a glorified wingman who has been playing CHF. 

[Cruiseon]

Valk finally someone being candid about NR.

He is not a champion, nor a great if I may be so bold here are the pro and cons as to why:

Pros:
Always gives 100%, never been accused of lacking desire or heart
This desire is his main asset, running people out of their comfort zone
Leadership - a bit debatable, leads by example but really does not win or lose games (ie Brown, Cloke, Judd, Goodes, Pav)

Cons:
Does not take contested marks as he is not that strong overhead
As a result he has always had to chase possessions up the ground where his influnce/danger is low
Is still a very poor kick for goal
Tries hard but does not get the impact for his efforts.

The 3 Grand final performances also don't help his cause that much.

Just my thoughts.

[BoredSaint]

he probably wont get the recognition as one of the 'champions' of the AFL but IMO he was still a great at St. Kilda.

had to battle the tough times and finally got to the big stage and JUST couldnt win it.

If we had won it last year, he would be a premiership captain and im sure none of this debate would happen.

And he has got 3? 4? B&F's and All Australian captain

[Cruiseon]

he probably wont get the recognition as one of the 'champions' of the AFL but IMO he was still a great at St. Kilda.

had to battle the tough times and finally got to the big stage and JUST couldnt win it.

If we had won it last year, he would be a premiership captain and im sure none of this debate would happen.

And he has got 3? 4? B&F's and All Australian captain

A bit like Brad Johnson, three B&F's and All Australian captain but a great of the game??

[pyronerd]

at his best was champion material, didnt perform at that level for long enough to warrent champion status however. He never should have been captain though, Lenny Hayes lifts his team as much as just about anybody in the AFL, I'd rather have Lenny captain by far then Roo

[BoredSaint]

Sorry.. 5 B&F's 8)

[Usman]

at his best was champion material, didnt perform at that level for long enough to warrent champion status however.

disagree with these he was a champion from his first season this is by far his worst season to date. so he had a good 7-8 year as a champ.

He never should have been captain though, Lenny Hayes lifts his team as much as just about anybody in the AFL, I'd rather have Lenny captain by far then Roo

Agree with this

[Cruiseon]

at his best was champion material, didnt perform at that level for long enough to warrent champion status however.

disagree with these he was a champion from his first season this is by far his worst season to date. so he had a good 7-8 year as a champ.

He couldn't kick for goal in his first 3 seasons, always would spray it from 35 metres out - he made Richo look reliable. I wouldn't call that Champion material. A Champion trier but no where near a Champion, I'd have Stewie Lowe in my side well before NR.   

[Usman]

He couldn't kick for goal in his first 3 seasons, always would spray it from 35 metres out - he made Richo look reliable. I wouldn't call that Champion material. A Champion trier but no where near a Champion, I'd have Stewie Lowe in my side well before NR. 

WOW WOW WOW. I cant have you talking about Richo like that. haha

Correct me if im wrong (and i probably am) but didnt roo win the B&F in his first year?

[AFEV]

He couldn't kick for goal in his first 3 seasons, always would spray it from 35 metres out - he made Richo look reliable. I wouldn't call that Champion material. A Champion trier but no where near a Champion, I'd have Stewie Lowe in my side well before NR. 

WOW WOW WOW. I cant have you talking about Richo like that. haha

Correct me if im wrong (and i probably am) but didnt roo win the B&F in his first year?

His second year.

[Usman]

Valk has hit the nail on thehead the zone has killed him. For now I think he/saints will find away for him to become a champion again it may mean a change of position? But I honestly rate him in the top 10 players in the last 10 years not only does the zone allow him to not be able to get free like valid mentioned the added pressure of the press means there is never space in the forward half anymore meaning the saints can't hold up play outside the 50 and wait for roo to burn his opponent/ opponents

[PowerBug]

It continued last night, his bad kicking.